Is Aston Martin Going Stale?

"Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge)" (thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 08:57 • Filed to: ASTON MARTIN, THE SMOKING TIRE, ASTON MARTIN V12 VANTAGE S, MATT FARAH, JONNY EDGE, DRIVING SPIRIT

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As the manufacturer of some of the most beautiful cars in the world, Aston Martin are held in high regard by journalists and car enthusiasts all over the world. When sliding Aston under the microscope though, you can observe some signs of decay. Aston Martin hasn't produced a truly unique design on a production car for over a decade now, with the exception of their hugely exclusive £1.2m One-77.

I don't for one moment believe that the V12 Vantage S from this recent video by The Smoking Tire is a bad car. The only interest I have in this particular car though is that awesome V12 engine. As for the rest of it, it's all very nice but it's the same old story I've been seeing and hearing about for around the last decade or so. This particular Vantage is the very last of its kind, there will be no more. However good this car may be, imagine how jaws would have dropped if it had been released with a newer, sharper, and more modern body design around it. Simply put; I don't believe this car deserved the swansong Aston Martin are giving it. I trust in Matt's analysis as an expert in his field, but doesn't that engine deserve an F-Type-like shape around it? Something to reinvigorate the Aston Martin brand?

Whilst on the topic of reinvigorating, perhaps they could consider the design of their steering wheels. When Aston Martin go to such great lengths to make every other part of their cars so beautiful and stylish, why leave the steering wheel (the single most important interior component) looking so poor and neglected? You can keep the thickness, size and shape that I know Mr Farah has previously praised and still show some flair in the design department. For the money being exchanged here customers deserve and probably expect far better, the small details matter. Look at this next picture and tell me; is this wheel really befitting of a £150,000 Aston Martin?

As beautiful as they are, Aston Martin's relentless cloning of the DB9 is getting rather tiresome. The DB9 was first shown in 2003 and when it was released we were all blown away by the styling, it truly was stunning. It's still indisputably gorgeous, but a decade down the road the effect this car once had is rapidly dropping away. It doesn't move people in the same way as it once did. Aston Martin have simply been living off the 'DB9 look' for far too long.

Look a bit closer at their other models. They are all DB9s with some rather miniscule design touches here and there to try and make them unique in their own right. The Vantage, A.K.A; 'Baby Aston' is a pocket DB9. The DBS was just a meaner, more aggressive DB9 with a license to kill. While the Rapide is a DB9 with a couple of extra doors fitted. Even the new Vanquish keeps the DB9 look with a curly lower lip and unique light arrangement.

By its very nature, style and fashion moves on. You need to update the look of your brand in order to keep fresh and relevant. At the current time it seems to me that buying an Aston Martin right now is spending £150,000+ on a car with an aging design made with potentially !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! I don't dispute that the cars they make are still beautiful, but it's time for Aston Martin to refresh themselves.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Edit: Despite some stating otherwise, this article is not about beauty. It's about business. I've stated in the article that I myself believe these cars to be beautiful. So, to save me replying to multiple comments regarding the Porsche 911, allow me to just point out that Aston Martin has lost $78m in two years due to falling demand.

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 09:08

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I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it, just pull a Porsche and keep incrementally improving the design over time.

offroadkarter > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 09:12

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If Aston Martins are going stale for being more of a "revolution" instead of "evolution" type of updating, you could say the 911 is way out of date.

Jagvar > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 09:19

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I think the new V12 Zagato looks quite different, but then again, the Zagato models always do.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > offroadkarter 03/31/2014 at 09:20

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I have thought about that, and it is a good point you've made. Of course, this article is an opinion piece by myself. So I'm looking forward to pitching my views up against you guys in the community and seeing what we all come up with! Anyway...

I look at it like this; Porsche have tried different things and ventured into new territory. Aston Martin haven't. They've made the entire Aston Martin brand the DB9. That's not necessarily a good thing.

It's beautiful and the design doesn't look bad for something over a decade old, but it's not new and it's not exciting. Sooner or later time catches up with fashion, and the clock is ticking for Aston Martin.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Jagvar 03/31/2014 at 09:23

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As far as I'm aware Jagvar, it's not new (please correct me if I'm wrong, you may well know more than me!) and you can't order these anymore. I did look into this model when researching this article but I couldn't find a definitive way to look into purchasing one of these. It wasn't obvious. It looked to me as if this had ceased.

I also wouldn't really want to include anything by an outside house in a manufacturer's portfolio because it isn't really 'them'. Does that make sense?

Does that seem fair to you? Let me know what you think. What did you make of the article? As always, thanks for reading!

offroadkarter > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 09:32

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To be fair aston martin has tried new things in the past... it just didn't pan out well

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > offroadkarter 03/31/2014 at 09:33

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That was a very, very long time ago now though. The world has changed since then. They are well capable of doing something new now.

offroadkarter > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 09:47

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They have that new 4dr right?

Not to keep bringing up Porsche but they've basically designed every vehicle they've made in the past 20 years off the 911 in some way shape or form.

PRBot II > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 09:50

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Tyler already said it, but I want to reiterate this because of how true it is:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

If Aston Martin changes just for the sake of changing, we're gonna end up with an automotive Kinja on our hands. Aston Martin Tiger, anyone?

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > offroadkarter 03/31/2014 at 09:50

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A four door DB9, yes.

I'd disagree with you about every Porsche car being designed off the 911 as well. Different layouts, shapes, sizes, audiences...

But hey, opinions. It's what makes this community so much fun.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > PRBot II 03/31/2014 at 09:53

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Personally, I think that's missing the point, but it's your opinion and if you're rooted into thinking that way I certainly wouldn't try to push you away from it.

As I've said in another comment; opinions are what make this community so much fun!

PRBot II > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 10:00

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Well I understand what you mean that the DB9 styling has been around for about 10 years. Eventually something will have to change, but if they aren't careful, they'll make a Kinja Tiger. I see the DB9 styling as timeless. I'll miss the current DB9 if and when it goes away.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > offroadkarter 03/31/2014 at 12:11

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I think the difference with the 911 is the pace of evolution. They've been releasing slightly updated styling every decade or so. Aston's done that with the Vanquish which is fantastic, but they need to do the same thing with the V8 Vantage. Hopefully this new partnership with Merc will bring the resources to do so.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 12:21

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I think you've got a point there. I don't think the fact that they've used the same design language since the DB9 is a problem. That design has legs. What they really need is to release new cars. The Vanquish is an ideal example, but they really need to replace the V8 Vantage. Cars like the 911 have entered a new evolution (991), and the F-Type has appeared as well. In that company, the V8 Vantage looks old. I think that's what's making them seem stale.

I can't wait for the AMG-engined replacement for the V8 Vantage. If they take it in the direction of the Vanquish, but with smaller (and better) proportions, I think it'll do very well.

Saying that, I agree that they probably need to be a bit more adventurous. The 911's done so well in part because it's diversified so much. There's a 911 for many different demographics. If they can expand the V8 Vantage, or make something new, to diversify I think that would be a good thing as well.

Mercedes ownership and more money will most likely help with that, much though I dislike that.

pauljones > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 12:23

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Hmmm.... no.

Beauty does not get stale. Waking up next to the woman that you know and love every day does not get stale; particularly if that woman happens to be a supermodel. Aston Martins tend to be the supermodels of cars - maybe not as wild and extreme as others out there, but certainly the loveliest and the most passionate. If you have an Aston Martin in your garage, you don't go out to it every day and think "God, how stale. I'm tired of looking at that" any more than you would say "God, how stale. I'm tired of waking up and looking at the supermodel I'm in love with."

As for the relentless cloning of the DB9... well, I'm going to have to disagree there for several reasons.

To start with, the general design theme to which I assume you are referring started long before the DB9. In fact, it started way back in 1992 when Ian Callum took an initial design for the original attempt at creating a Jaguar F-type (originally penned by Keith Helfet), and adapted and re-imagined it into an Aston Martin after the F-type's cancellation. That new car that Ian Callum came up with was the DB7, and it was introduced to the market in 1994 as an entry-level counterpart to the V8 Virage.

That was the start of the Aston Martin design we've come to know and love (and apparently - according to some - find stale), way back in the early 90s. Everything since then has been an evolution of the DB7 theme.

"But wait pauljones, you're supporting my argument by saying that the design theme has been around even longer than I thought!"

No. I am stating that the design theme has been around longer than you thought, but that's not to say that it is necessarily stale. As I asserted above, something that is truly beautiful to you does not get stale. I know a girl that I find amazingly beautiful, and I never get tired of seeing her. Everything she does is beautiful to me in one way or another, from the way that she uses random pens to tie her hair up at work to the way she looks at me when my tie/pocket square don't quite match. I never get tired of just watching her go out and live every time I see her. Too bad she only dates her own gender, but that's an altogether different topic. Now, not everyone finds her to be beautiful, and I understand that. I also understand that if someone doesn't find her to be particularly beautiful in their eyes, they might get tired of seeing her. But that's solely on them.

For me at least, the same goes for the general design theme that Aston Martin has had for the past 20 years. I simply love it, and find it truly beautiful. I'll never get tired of seeing it; I'll also never be able to afford it, but that, too, is an altogether different topic. If you don't find it to be beautiful, then yes, I can understand finding it stale after a while and getting tired of seeing it. That may just be you; however, I'll admit that I particularly hate the decidedly tasteless "improvements" that Marek Reichmann has made of late, but I still love the over all theme.

As for the cars never changing, and everything being just a slight twist on the original DB9, that's not quite true. Aston Martin uses what's called the VH platform, or Vertical Horizontal platform, for its cars (exclusing the Cygnet and the One-77). However, that platform has been through no less than five different generations since its introduction in 2001 under the original Vanquish. It was modified and adapted to underpin the basic DB9, and it's true that the basic DB9 has used that platform with comparatively minor tweaks since 2004. However, the Vantage models and the DBS use a further evolution of the VH platform with notable structural and material changes from the DB9. The Rapide uses a stretched version with additional updates and improvements. And, finally, the new Vanquish (with that godawful spoiler dreamed up by Marek Reichmann, may he have a seat reserved in industrial design hell) uses an altogether different evolution of the VH platform with significant use of carbon in its architecture.

Engine-wise, there has also been significant changes. If you look closely enough in V12 models, you can still see traces of Ford DNA from two decades ago. However, the current V12 used in the new Vanquish is no more related to its twenty-year-old predecessor as the new LT1 is related to the original SBC. Even design-wise, there have been significant changes. Make a pastiche of profile shots of the DB7, Vanquish, DB9, V8 Vantage, and new Vanquish, and you'll see the differences.

The only thing that hasn't changed significantly is the theme of the cars - Aston Martin produces high-performance grand touring cars. Some have fallen a little more on the performance side, and some have fallen a little more on the grand touring side. But all of them follow the same theme, even if they have different ways of going about it. But, then, what else would you expect of a company that built its entire legacy on producing supreme grand touring cars.

To me, there is nothing stale about Aston Martin. I find them to be well and truly beautiful, and not once have I been bored bay them. Not once have I found them to be stale, or gotten tired of looking at them. If you don't find them to be as beautiful, I understand not wanting to see them as much anymore. That, however, is a matter of personal preference.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > pauljones 03/31/2014 at 12:47

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First of all Paul, thank you for taking the time for writing such a passionate and well written response to my article. Even though you oppose my views I very much enjoyed reading it.

I have not, and will not ever criticize Aston Martin's cars for their looks. They are very beautiful cars. I have to say anybody who does find Aston's to be ugly must have issues with sight. At least we can agree to this.

I would (respectfully) ask you to consider the following. Are you allowing your love of the brand to cloud your judgement here? The question I would put to you (as a passionate Aston fan) is does it make sense for Aston Martin to base the future of their brand upon the singular appearance of this much loved design? Everybody else is expanding, developing, and changing.

I like to think I'm looking at Aston Martin with a bit more of a business head here. I like their designs, God I'd love to drive one! Even more than that, as a British man; I'd love to see them survive. It's quite possible in this era we're in that a brand like Aston could quickly find itself in trouble. I don't want that happen anymore than you do.

Once again, thank you for this great response and for taking the time to write it all out. I'm looking forward to talking more with you on this! J.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/31/2014 at 12:53

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It will be interesting to see what comes along, that's for sure! I just worry that Aston might get caught out if they don't start to show some diversity and variation.

Nobody ever argues Aston's aren't beautiful, that would be ridiculous, but the line up is a clone of DB9's. Imagine if Aston got involved in the SUV war. Money for Aston.

Imagine if Aston stretched their legs into a lower market! Wow, imagine the excitement that would cause! 'We're going to make a Cayman rival.' Having said that, I suppose some of the elite could argue it devalues the upper end cars.

It's interesting though isn't it!

pauljones > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 13:23

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Am I allowing my love of the brand to cloud my judgment?

No. I fully acknowledge that for as much as they cost, and as beautiful as they are, they have certain shortcomings that simply should not exist at that price point, particularly in regards to how their performance stacks up against other high-end GT cars. I also noted above that I decidedly dislike Marek Reichmann and his aesthetic sense (or lack thereof). My argument was not about love of the brand; rather, it was about dispelling the notion that beauty can be stale.

Does it make sense for Aston Martin to base the future of their brand upon the singular appearance of this much-loved design?

They don't. They have a stylistic theme, but they do not have cars that are indistinguishable from one another. In fact, Aston Martin is one of the few automotive brands anymore that has models that don't horrifically overlap and can be distinguished from each other.

Evolution, rather than revolution, is generally a more effective approach to long-term brand strategy. The Corvette, Viper, 911, Cayman/Boxtser, Miata, etc. have all followed this idea. Even Lamborghini, once known for its brash re-imagination of the automotive world, has fallen into the pattern of aesthetic evolution of aesthetic revolution.

Why? Because it's just good business.

You get a good formula going. You improve that formula; you tweak the variables in the formula gradually over time. A little bit more here, a little bit less there. But you never, ever change the formula. When you've done something beautifully right, and people are lining up to buy them, you give them what they want: that thing that you did beautifully right. You don't toss it out and reinvent it; Porsche tried that once when they attempted to replace the 911 with the 928. Porsche failed miserably at that. Ford nearly tried it when they almost replaced the RWD Fox-body Mustang with the Ford Probe (the Ford Probe was actually supposed to be the next Mustang after the Fox-chassis), but when rumor got it, the reaction was so severe that it sent Ford execs running for the hills. GM laughed at both of them the whole time while it kept the Corvette formula just the way it was.

When you start alienating your customer base, business goes down the drain. The trick is to keep the aesthetic impression the same, while actually making it a better car. Corvettes and 911s are the best examples of this, and Aston Martin with their VH architecture are doing a fine job of that as well. That's why they still have customers.

Simple business smarts.

As a side note, and also from a business perspective, developing a brand-new platform is expensive. Very expensive. In fact, its prohibitively expensive for a company as tiny as Aston Martin to create multiple vehicles with individual platforms to support multiple different styling themes.

Business-wise, Aston Martin is doing just fine. They keep the look more or less the same while making the cars better, which is exactly what they should be doing. There is no threat to them in that regard.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 03/31/2014 at 14:43

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I'd love to see an Aston Cayman rival. You could argue it devalues the brand, but I think that's bollocks. Bad cars devalue the brand. Exceptional cars add value. Just make sure that you're making exceptional ones :)

hike > offroadkarter 04/06/2014 at 00:19

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I think another big difference between the Porsche evolution and AM evolution, is that 911 itself is significantly different. All the Astons still have that same V12, same basic architecture, and are just now getting newer looking interiors.

rjcitrino > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 17:45

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because the Porsche 911 went stale after 10 years right... wait, no it's 50, and still sexy

Fenderaddict2 > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 17:48

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The problem for Aston, is how do you evolve perfection? I find the latest cars less beautiful than the last even though the look is very similar. Where do they go from here, and how much risk does any new direction, or no new direction for that matter, pose to the company?

TGRIP > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 18:43

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One thing I'd like to add: the One-77 is itself a BIGGER version of the DB9... but carries even more problems. The ginormous price tag is mainly for the body, the interior, and the massive engine, and while all of those components are incredible... everything else (mainly the chassis and gearbox) are all remnants from the DB9... and asking a ten year old gearbox to handle 750 HP (the DB9 started out with 470 mind you), is a tall order. And Aston can't really make gearboxes (look into what issues the old Vanquish had with its flappy paddle nightmare), which is why the One-77 is one of the few cars ever made with the distinct honor of being able to stall... despite lacking a clutch pedal. And before anyone asks, Aston said that the reason they didn't make a bespoke gearbox for the hypercar is because it would've added an additional $100,000 to the price tag. So yeah, even when they "go all out", Aston STILL can't be original... BUY THEM AWAY, MERCEDES!

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Fenderaddict2 04/06/2014 at 18:49

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Any good designer or engineer will tell you; there is no such thing as perfection. The fact you find the latest cars less appealing than the older ones simply backs up the statement that this I am trying to make in this article.

I'm sure every company worries about their new product sending them backwards rather than forwards, but I really don't think Aston should be thinking like that. A negative mindset doesn't get you anywhere.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > TGRIP 04/06/2014 at 18:52

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I'm really not sure what the One-77 is, and frankly it didn't interest me. It was a ridiculous car that did nothing for the brand, and yes you're right about the Aston gearboxes being awful I have heard about that before.

If I had to make a guess, I would say Aston are lacking some development money...but I'm speculating.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > rjcitrino 04/06/2014 at 18:59

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Tell me, have you actually read my article? Or did you just read the title and skip to the comments section?

Aston Martin have saturated the brand with the DB9. You can bring up the 911 all you like but you're failing to see the point I'm trying to make.

I haven't for one moment argued that Aston Martin's are not "sexy". I totally agree with you when you say they are. I even call them beautiful in my article. The point I am trying to make is that they are not interesting and they are not exciting, furthermore, the Aston Martin brand is not evolving. This is bad for business.

Every other luxury car manufacturer is doing something different or developing to offer a new product or even entering an entirely new segment. What is it Aston Martin are doing apart from bolting on a couple more doors to a DB9 and charging people through the nose for it?

What makes this even worse is that now you can't even be guaranteed of the build quality.

TGRIP > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 19:31

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I'm with you on them having money issues, but I also think that they are right now mainly just resting on their laurels, a bit like Ferrari was in the 80s and early 90s. They've been voted coolest brand several years in a row, they are HUGELY popular in China and the Middle East (where all the money is)... so I can't blame them for not wanting to change, but I can HATE on them for it.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 20:25

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I don't care, when their cars are this obscenely beautiful. I'll take evolutionary of the same unbelievably gorgeous design any day over risky new styling changes. I will concede that they have been playing the DB9 game perhaps a bit too much, but almost every single one of their cars is just insanely gorgeous. I don't like the new Rapide though...

Fenderaddict2 > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 20:26

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As a professional designer, I agree we never hit perfection, but to our audience our work may indeed peak. And Aston design peaked in recent years. Of course their may be a future peak that exceeds the recent but for now we are repeating themes with design flourishes for the sake of design itself, it seems at times.

ktonl > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 20:48

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Of all things you point to the steering wheel for criticism? Have you seen their outdated infotainment system (or lackthereof). From what I remember, the Nav is a totally separate entity from their audio playback - you might as well buy a GPS and tack it on to the dash. In a world where combining both into a single entity is the norm, this is unacceptable.

Stohlen > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 20:51

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I think its funny you believe the design is "stale" and praise the engine, while i feel the engine is the real problem with the aston. The V12 is a decade old design, and there is so much room for improvement. I'd prefer a 600+ hp number out of the top of the line engine, something aston can't provide with its decade old engine... I love the design, don't think anything needs to change there, they just need to put a more powerful engine in there. Until that happens i'll be buying an F-type coupe instead.

Xentron Holy Reaper of Worlds > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 20:57

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"As beautiful as they are, Aston Martin's relentless cloning of the DB9 is getting rather tiresome."

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH.

But really, good write up.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Xentron Holy Reaper of Worlds 04/06/2014 at 20:59

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Haha! Thank you! It's not that I don't think they're beautiful, they really are! They just aren't interesting as many customers as they need to be.

Justin > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 20:59

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I know I'm late to the party, but the next James Bond film is due out in late 2015, and the producers of said film, Michael G. Wilson and Barbara Broccoli (the same family of producers that coined the first 23 films) recently stated at the Bond In Motion exhibit in London that Bond will be driving an all-new Aston Martin the next installment.

http://www.itn.co.uk/UK/98125/large…

So we'll see what the all-new Aston in 2015 looks like, and hopefully it's a little more revolutionary than evolutionary.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Justin 04/06/2014 at 21:01

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Oh thanks for this Justin that's cool news!

Let's hope we don't see a Bond SUV though... I don't think that would work!

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Stohlen 04/06/2014 at 21:03

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The whole brand is stale. There isn't anything interesting about the Aston Martin brand as a whole at the moment.

Really? Come on, tell me who doesn't love a V12... I may be all for moving forward but some things we need to hold onto for as long as possible!

I have very big question marks over Aston Martin build quality.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > ktonl 04/06/2014 at 21:08

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Well having neither owned an Aston Martin, or been invited to drive one, yes I'm pointing out the steering wheel. They're awful for a car of this price.

I'm absolutely with you on infotainment systems having to be exceptional though, especially in a car of this standard. If they really are as bad as you say they are then that's something they need to rip out and replace.

As I've stated in a few other comments and in the article, I have pretty big doubts over the build quality of these cars, but I hope these these turn out to be unfounded.

Justin > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 22:39

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Well Tata Motors (a.k.a Land Rover / Range Rover and Jaguar owner) has made picture deals for the last two Bond movies, which is why Bond is often carted around in a Rangie, and the silver Defender is in the opening of Skyfall. But they haven't sealed the deal on getting him to actually drive one of their cars.

Alfa Romeo made a deal to be the baddie cars in the opening of Quantum of Solace, and Ford made a deal to put Bond in a Mondeo for parts of Casino Royale.

Land Rover / Range Rover also has Daniel Craig (the current James Bond) signed on for promotional purposes, and he revealed the new Range Rover at their big event this past year.

So Bond in an SUV (likely an Evoque or new Discovery) isn't a really too far off idea. But for now it would appear Bond's choice will continue to be Aston. Don't be too surprised if Tata manages to squeeze him into an F-Type down the road, though.

ssonsk > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 23:18

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I was thinking this same thing the other day. If they keep this up eventually they are going to go belly up. Their cars ARE good looking; however, they do not really stick in the mind. You can see an Aston Martin on the road and think "wow that's a nice car," and then five minutes later forget that Aston Martin even exist. It would probably take a changing of ownership for them to venture out and try new things.

I'm sure the topic of new styling has come up plenty of times in meetings. Honestly they are probably too scared to make such a change, and view it as too risky of a move. Because what is the first thing that comes to mind when you think Aston Martin? That same old generic shape that all of their cars share. They have made the look too synonymous with the brand, and now they must keep up with the image they have created.

I cannot see them changing their ways without new leadership and vision to lead them to a different horizon. It would not be a surprise if this hole they are digging is hurting their wallets. All the competition are trying new things, experimenting, and repackaging themselves while Aston Martin is selling you old stale bread.

ssonsk > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 23:28

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Oh and a 2012 Shelby GT500 is faster than pretty much any Aston Martin (HP and speed), and cost $40k...

d3v > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/06/2014 at 23:51

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As many folks have pointed out, Aston are simply cribbing from the Porsche playbook. A fact that shouldn't be surprising since Dr. Bez used to work at Porsche. For Aston, it seems that he's following what Porsche did in the late 90's when they not only re-emphasized the 911, but also decided that it would now serve as the basis for the companies styling forevermore.

This is what Aston has most likely been doing for the past decade or so. Just like Porsche, they've created a strong visual identity/brand that's tied to the overall shape of the car. Like it or not, any future Aston's are still going to be tied to that visual identity, even if they do start differentiating their models better (just like the succeeding generations of Boxter's and 911's did not look like each other anymore).

Heck, it's not just Aston, other companies have been trying to do the same thing. Look at the Aston's nearest competitor. Unless you told me, I'd be hard pressed to tell the current-gen Continental GT from the previous one. Look at Land Rover, they've been trying to do the same to the Range Rover line for just as long as Aston. And don't get me started with Audi.

Additionally, this probably does bring huge savings to Aston. By building essentially the same car over and over, their costs keep going down. Again, this is borrowed from the Porsche playbook. They've been building off the 911 formula for so long that the car is likely very cheap for them to make. Porsche is supposedly the most profitable automaker out there and, if rumours are to be believed, they make huge profits even off the base 911 alone without all the ridiculously expensive optional extras.

Color-Commentary > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 01:48

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AM's build quality is actually Porsche-level right now. The hyped accelerator pedal / China supplier issue notwithstanding, the VH-platform cars are an order of magnitude less troublesome than Ferraris, and very nicely made. Go compare the paintwork and interior stitching on a 458 to that on a current Aston and report back. Extra points if you can find a Ferrari in a hard-to-apply metallic color instead of solid Rosso Corsa.

One advantage of building similar cars over and over is that the bugs get worked out of the manufacturing process!

Also interesting to note is that a non-S AMV8 is a bit of a bargain now: At a base price of $116k, it's actually cheaper than a lot of the 991s you'll find on a dealer lot, and only about a $10k step up from an SL550 or M6. It may not be as fast as a 991 in outright speed, but the AMV8 has got more charisma and is vastly more engaging to drive.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 02:53

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eh, I'd be worried, except Aston Martin have always been a slow burner for new designs.


The DB4, DB5 and DB6 were all very similar (and even then the DB4 wasn't too far off from the DB Mark III) That's 1958 through to 1971 without any significant visual changes:

Then came the V8/DBS/Vantage in 1969 which remained unchanged for another 20 years.

and I personally think the DB9 is just a face-lift of the DB7 design introduced in 1994.

Volksandmopar > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 04:01

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I've been saying this for years, I liked the Aston style for a couple years, because it looked great. But when EVERY SINGLE CAR in your line up looks exactly the same, its not cool. Especially not after a decade. Some people argue that the 911 should be put under the same microscope, but I disagree because the 911 is one model made by a company that makes several cars. It constantly evolves, but each new Porsche is distinct from the last by more than just engine. With Aston, the only difference is engine. When I see a Boxter, a Cayman and a 911, I know which is which. If I saw a Vantage, a Vanquish and something else, I would have no clue which was which.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Color-Commentary 04/07/2014 at 04:24

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I'd counter you that it was a "bit of a bargain" because it's a bit of a geriatric sports car, and nobody will pay a premium price for an old sports car.

I wish I could go and compare them and report back for you! I may not agree with the direction they are taking but I certainly don't hate them. I would love to see them succeed, they're a British icon after all.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Volksandmopar 04/07/2014 at 04:29

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Yes, a lot of people are coming to me with the 911 argument but I find that to be lazy debating. The 911 and Aston Martin are two entirely different entity's and justifying Aston's brand philosophy with Porsche's 50 year old sports car makes more or less no sense.

Some people would like an Aston SUV. Bingo, more money. Some people would love to see Aston venture into Cayman territory. Bingo, more money. Some of the community leaving comments on this article are totally failing to see the point. It's about business, and survival. Times change, you have to evolve now, not in several years time.

Your views on the Aston line up are not uncommon at all. It's interesting to see what's going to happen with them. I'd love them to prove me wrong and go ahead and do something different.

Alex87f > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 05:05

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I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw a DB9 the other day. It's just a tarted up first gen DB9. I'd rather spend my money on a used "real" DB9, or on Huracan, a 911 turbo, a Maserati Quattroporte or even a Continental GT. Something that isn't a 60 years old trying to look 30.

dbx6 > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 05:08

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the impetus to change should come from the fact Ford is producing millions of cars with an Aston Martin inspired front end now. No, it doesn't look exactly like an Aston but it has a similarity about it. And that does not help Aston Martin stay fresh. At all. So... Aston... You gotta get out of the comfort zone old chap.

DownTheLiffeyOnADonut > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 06:10

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Aston has no money. Simple as that. Unless the rumoured Mercedes takeover happens, they will continue to have no money, which is pretty much the story of Aston Martin; bit of investment comes along, company moves forward. Investment stops (in the most recent case the sale by Ford), the long decline begins. So all they can do is continue to stretch the existing architecture until a new sugar daddy arrives.

Despite being British I really hope the Mercedes takeover does happen; as a nation we're terrible stewards of our motoring heritage.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > d3v 04/07/2014 at 06:15

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Forgive me if I'm sounding a little grouchy now but I'm a little tired of the rather lazy 911 counter point. It's a short cut to a point to debate on and won't help Aston Martin in the slightest.

Porsche have not made the 911 their entire line up. Porsche have varied engines and layouts, and have ventured into new segments. If you cannot see the difference between Porsche and Aston Martin then there is nothing more I do or say.

Land Rover basically make one kind of vehicle, and they are very varied for what the segments they operate in. In the last few years Audi have introduced lots of different models and variations and given themselves a greater footprint in the market so I don't think we can accuse them of the same thing either.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Alex87f 04/07/2014 at 06:31

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Thank you Alex! You seem to be understanding what I'm trying to say. You're the kind of person that Aston are losing out on.

The rest of the automotive market has moved on in some sense, and yet Aston have stayed in the same place. The world does not reward businesses that do that.

If you happened to come into a vast some of money tomorrow, you'd probably buy a competitor because your interest in the brand has fallen away. People like yourself are seeing DB9s now and being turned off, and that's why Aston Martin are losing ground.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > dbx6 04/07/2014 at 06:33

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It certainly isn't helping the "wow factor" of that gorgeous Aston front end.

Getting out of the comfort zone, exploring new ground, I'm totally with you.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > DownTheLiffeyOnADonut 04/07/2014 at 06:38

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I think Mercedes might wait and see what Aston do with their engines first. Mercedes engines in an Aston body is a recipe for success, but they can't keep cloning the DB9 and expect customers to stay interested.

I think you're right about us Brits looking after our big motoring firms, with smaller firms we do fantastic work though.

Speedmonkey > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 07:03

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Been thinking the same thing myself lately. Aston Martin desperately need some new blood, and a general refresh all round

d3v > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 07:09

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Varied engines and layouts yes, but have you looked at their styling? Just about everything they have these days (with the exception of the 918) borrows heavily from the 911's design language. Look at the ass end of a Panamera, it's ugly as sin because they wanted it to have the same curve as a 911s. Look at the original Cayenne, we see heavy 911 design language influences.

And in any case, that's just part of the point. The main point is that Aston wants to be like Porsche. They want to be that company where people can tell that it's one of their cars just by the shape alone, in the same way a non-enthusiast doesn't care whether that bug-eyed rear engined (if they even care where the engine is) car is a 930, or a 993. To them, it's just "a Porsche". Porsche has the kind of brand/design recognition that no one else in the business (save for maybe Land Rover) has. It's that kind of brand/design recognition that Aston wants. Both as a sense of identity fort he brand and as a way to decrease costs by having increasing platform commonality.

That's why, even then they do introduce new cars, you can bet that you will still be seeing a heavy DB7/9 styling influence in them.

Alex87f > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 07:09

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Haha, I don't think I belonged into their customer base anyway!

But it's a fair point, if I all of a sudden had more money than I do now and had to buy a new car, I wouldn't buy an Aston.

That being said, if I had money to spend on a car now, I'd probably try to snatch a 2008-9 V8 Vantage. That car is just...

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Speedmonkey 04/07/2014 at 07:31

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I think a lot of people are feeling the same way, and it would surprise me if Aston themselves were not thinking this way. I'm sure they'll have something up their sleeves.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > d3v 04/07/2014 at 07:37

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And this philosophy is really working for them right now? Aston have lost $78m. There's design language, and then there's cloning. Aston are cloning the DB9 across the range and expecting people to pay vast sums of money for a "new" model.

Imitating another brand is not the right way to enhance your own, and so I really don't understand what relevance Porsche has in this matter. How do you even know Aston "wants to be like Porsche"? Surely if they wanted to be like Porsche they'd have two SUVs and some hybrid technology on sale right now?

I very much hope we do see the influence in their next designs, but that's it; Influence. Putting more doors on a DB9 and calling it a Rapide is ridiculous, and customers are having their say by buying elsewhere.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Alex87f 04/07/2014 at 07:41

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I spoke to the bloke managing the Bentley stand at Goodwood one year, and he said something that stuck in my head. He told me that he and the brand treated everybody as if they were going to become wealthy enough to buy a Bentley. Just because somebody can't afford it today doesn't mean they won't be able to tomorrow morning. It's about giving good impressions and sparking interest.

The fact that you love Aston Martin's yet wouldn't buy a new one if you happened to win the Euromillions next week tells me that I was right about Aston. They're not doing enough to keep people interested. If you're walking away, imagine what the wealthy customers are doing! $78m in two years is very worrying indeed.

Xedicon > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 08:13

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Finally somebody who gets it. I've had this same issue with Aston for a while, and every time I mention it people go nuts flaming away on "HoWaz NOT PURDTY GUH!!!" completely missing the point. Still pretty but too familiar at this point to have enough pull to get people to plunk down their money.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Xedicon 04/07/2014 at 08:20

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Thanks Xedicon, hope you enjoyed the article, and yes it seems I can't question Aston Martin without questioning the entire concept of "beauty". Which isn't what I'm doing, I'm just looking at Aston with a business head! (except for numbers, good grief, keep me away from numbers...)

SCARPS22 > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 09:58

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If I hit the lottery tomorrow my first stop would be at the Aston Martin Dealer to order a new DB9 Volante. It is the quintessential luxurious, beautiful,and muscular sports car. That being said, let's redesign the Vantage, Rapide and the Vanquish so they are NEW cars, not rehashes of the previous years model. Keep the DB9 as it is, with yearly subtle upgrades and let's take a Mercedes engine and trans and Aston Martinize them. Maybe even make a more affordable smaller new sports car ( not Cygnet ) that might generate some revenue to actually finance new R&D.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > SCARPS22 04/07/2014 at 10:02

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I fully support that idea Scarps, I think a something in the region of a Cayman-rival would be perfect for Aston.

ReaperChief > pauljones 04/07/2014 at 10:35

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Dude, you should just write these two responses in a separate article.. Good read and I agree with everything you have said.. If you have a considerable amount of people who love your cars, why change them? I've seen a few months ago that Aston Martin even has an event for racing their cars in the Alps. There's a whole fanclub of these people and while some get to drool at the thought of such vehicles, others praise the brand for what it is and buy these cars.

Color-Commentary > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 12:44

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True that in this segment of the market, "freshness" of product matters.

Orson > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 12:59

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I completely agree, and can't see the comparisons to Porsche and the 911. While the very basic layout/formula of the 911 has remained the same, every new generation has greatly benefited from the marques proven technological advancements in motorsport (which they don't merely participate in, but WIN). They're the innovators and benchmark. When Aston Martin debuted the DB9, it was a huge improvement/great car…but while no one can argue they're beautiful to look at, they've always come up short in the performance department. That's fine, but a "fashion"-based car can't soldier on for as long as they have.

Orson > Orson 04/07/2014 at 13:15

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I realize I'm late to the conversation, but I'll just add that Ford "borrowed" many of the design elements of Aston Martin (and Land Rover), before selling. Whether or not you agree that the design language is stale, the fact that budget American sedans and crossovers now have the same grills, lights, etc…won't do Aston Martin any favors in their glacial evolution business case.

Steven McCarthy > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 13:19

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Hey all, sorry this is going to be a wordy first post.
My Brother recently visited Gaydon factory for work that required him to cover the enitre factory flooring, he is a fan of Aston Martin much like myself. And whilst we love the cars and think that as a total product they are possibly the most desirable on the market, I would agree that perhaps...things have been some what 'slow' in recent years. Whilst Porsche and Ferrari have really pushed forward the performance in a sector to a new level, Aston has focused on trying to create a unique product. But I also have started to believe that it is unfair to compare Aston to marques like Porsche and Ferrari in terms of there technical ingenuity, those are more than just companies now they are almost empires, Ferrari has a bad image amongst alot of 'petrol heads' where they are deemed to have sold there soul and whilst they make undoubtedly awesome machines they do it in a way that can leave a bad taste...heck they even banned Chris Harris from testing there cars after his tirade on exactly that. Porsche is just an incredible mark but they are a part of a much bigger entity in VW. Aston is kind of in there own little universe, which will hopefully change in the next few years.

No one pointed the finger at Pagani when they churned out countless Zonda models (which I feel bad saying as the F is one of my all time favorite cars).

I have digressed, but as I mentioned earlier my Brother has recently visited Gaydon and he spoke with the engineers on the upcoming AMG link up and they were making some very impressive claims that they were doing pre-liminary testing and getting a good 700+hp from the engine they were placing on there new model.

I would say slightly that my heart dipped when he mentioned having seen the clay model for both it's coupe and convertible form and said he could see quite a bit of One-77 influence in the product, because as a lover of the brand I do want something new, exciting and that will be a step forward but with the 'lesser' resources at there expenditure I would say there is a risk that wont happen.

They will just focus on making the most desirable product they can with the resources they have...I hope there are some exciting times ahead for Aston but I would say that perhaps the timing of this article is a bit too late, had it been last year when the news of Hyper Cars was all a rage then I would say it is fair enough. But with AMG's partnership on the horizon and a new model I would say it is perhaps harsh.

checksyourmath > offroadkarter 04/07/2014 at 13:39

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Except for the Cayenne, and Macan, and 918 spyder, and boxster, and cayman. Come to think of it, none of the vehicles Porsche currently makes are based off the 911.

offroadkarter > checksyourmath 04/07/2014 at 14:11

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the design language is all still the same

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 15:20

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Great post and on point. I agree 100%.

I've been in several newer Astons, and driven a DB9 several times. The engine is about all there is going for them right now. Externally, they are pretty cars...but the design has been around since 03...which itself was a revised version of the DB7 design that's been around since the 90s. I'm not saying it's time to re-invent the wheel, but for what you pay, they are woefully inadequate. Even a DBS has some truly pathetic electronics and switch gear in the interior, and even though that engine does make a wonderful sound, it's underpowered compared to its rivals. Also, they are heavy and just not quite there compared to almost anything else you can buy.

They are wonderful cars, but relatively speaking, they are extremely stale. And if I could afford one right now, I would not buy one. Porsche or Ferrari or Lamborghini all make much more compelling cars. I'd even rather have an M6 than a DBS...god knows it's built better and much faster/lighter/more advanced. Painful but true.

They need a new platform badly. Hopefully this partnership with AMG will give them a new lease on life. For now, I don't see it.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > offroadkarter 04/07/2014 at 15:22

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Not really...the 911 is an all-new car every generation and generally one of the most technologically advanced cars you can buy when introduced. The current crop of Astons are so woefully out of date it's pathetic. Gorgeous, but useless.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Jagvar 04/07/2014 at 15:23

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That's not new, its a few years old. It is gorgeous, but it was extremely limited-production, and only a few were made. And underneath it was still the same clunky old platform, although admittedly less outdated when that car came out.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > PRBot II 04/07/2014 at 15:24

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But it is broke. They are very expensive, underpowered, still not built well, appallingly spec'd tech-wise, have terrible switch gear, are heavy, and the styling language is a decade old and has been overdone to death. They need something new, and fast.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > pauljones 04/07/2014 at 15:26

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The point still stands....they are woefully behind compared to all their competitors. There is no good reason at all to buy one, except for the exterior design...which is admittedly striking but yes, it is stale. It's been around in its current form for a decade. That's too damn long.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 04/07/2014 at 15:53

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Thanks Evan, really appreciate your comments.

I haven't been fortunate enough to drive one yet, but perhaps I'll have a word with Aston and see if they'll let me in. I don't fancy my chances though!

pauljones > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 16:12

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" Edit: Despite some stating otherwise, this article is not about beauty. It's about business. I've stated in the article that I myself believe these cars to be beautiful. So, to save me replying to multiple comments regarding the Porsche 911, allow me to just point out that Aston Martin has lost $78m in two years due to falling demand."

We did not state that your argument was about beauty; you did. Your overall assertion here in this article is that Aston Martin is doing poorly from a business standpoint as a result of having cars with aesthetic designs that you consider to be stale. Those were your words; we did not put them in the article afterwords in a secret, late-night ninja edit.

All of the concerns stated in your article have been addressed by others in the comments; you just seem not to like the fact that you're getting responses that don't agree with your position.

Here they are, again, in summary:

1) Aesthetics are an individual taste. This is especially evident when you realize that the argument that you are making is equally applicable to Porsche, Lamborghini, Bentley, Rolls-Royce, and other manufacturers; and yet, you seem to focus the argument entirely on Aston Martin. That indicates that your argument is simply an individual assertion of your own aesthetic values and preferences.

We're sorry that you find the aesthetics of contemporary Aston Martins to be so stale.

2) Despite your assertion to the contrary, there has been a great deal of changes to Aston Martin's lineup in the past decade, both aesthetic and technical. I've explained many of them to you elsewhere. The fact that you can't see them or don't know about them doesn't mean they didn't happen.

3) Aston Martin's losses are not due simply to falling vehicles sales. It is true that their sales have fallen year-over-year for two years, but that does not necessarily directly correlate with aged cars or stale styling. To start with, the cars aren't nearly as aged as you think they are. That's been explained to you elsewhere. Additionally, sales of Aston Martins have dropped year-over-year since 2007, when the original DB9 was still quite fresh. Every other hyper-luxury automaker has experienced much the same; it's a trend that followed the global economic recession. Not at all surprising, really.

You also don't seem to take into account that expenditure is just as important in determining profitability as net revenue (positive or negative). Things like investing in completely re-designing the VH platform from an all-aluminum architecture to an architecture that makes considerable use of carbon isn't cheap. Launching three new or heavily updated models in a 12-month period also is expensive. So is investing in a new engine partnership and the logistical ramifications that come from that.

You know what else you aren't taking into account? Aston Martin just recently got a $150 million dollar cash infusion which probably isn't reflected in their net earnings.

In summary, I'm sorry that you find Aston Martin's styling language to be stale. I'm also sorry that you are unaware of the technical and aesthetic changes that have occurred in Aston Martins in the last ten years. However, if that is truly the case, you're invited to buy Bentley, Porsche, or Lamborghini.

Oh, wait....

Remember, also, that there's a great deal more to determining how well a business is doing than looking at one simple number without any context whatsoever.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > pauljones 04/07/2014 at 17:25

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As beautiful as they are, Aston Martin's relentless cloning of the DB9 is getting rather tiresome.

I don't dispute that the cars they make are still beautiful, but it's time for Aston Martin to refresh themselves.

When Aston Martin go to such great lengths to make every other part of their cars so beautiful and stylish...

Finally, my OPENING LINE : As the manufacturer of some of the most beautiful cars in the world...

How many times do I have to state that these cars are beautiful? That's four times already, I may have stated it even more. I simply haven't got the time and energy to help you understand anymore. I'm not here to hold your hand. Open your eyes. You have made this about beauty, not me. I am questioning the direction that they are taking.

In case you didn't notice, I greeted your original response with politeness and respect, it was superbly written and you clearly know a lot about the subject. I'm not an engineer, nor have I driven an Aston before. I am giving an OPINION and I'm writing this article to ask the question to the community. I actually thought I was polite enough towards you, and I looked forward to engaging with you on the subject matter further, I then decided that was clearly not a good idea seeing as you are first and foremost writing with an incredibly aggressive tone towards me, and secondly still totally missing the point that I am trying to make.

The losses number I have quoted is designed to help give people an indication to what is actually going on. Demand is falling, and so is interest. Yes, we can factor in the recession a little bit if that makes you feel better, but as you may have noticed from the comments section here (some from people who have actually driven these cars) many people actually agree with me. Potential customers are being turned off to the brand, by the reluctance of the brand to move forward.

And now, let me make this as clear as I can for you: The general public do not give a damn about minor changes to the platform, nor do they give a damn about your minor technical changes and improvements. The only people that give a damn about that is the hardcore enthusiast. They, like yourself will buy an Aston Martin anyway, and I commend you for your choice. In case you still haven't noticed, I happen to think they are rather beautiful cars.

This is about brand perception Mr Jones. It's not about your own personal inside knowledge. Joe Public doesn't have that knowledge, and even if he had the chance to listen to you talk about it, he probably wouldn't be listening.

Read the comments section, re-read my article, and if you still don't understand the point I'm trying to make (a point many commenters are also making) then shake my hand like a gentleman and agree to disagree with me. I've had enough of your aggressively written rants for now thank you very much, and I do not believe the comments section of this website needs us to trade blows like this. If we don't agree, we don't agree. Let's leave it at that.

pauljones > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 19:29

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And as I said, I am aware of the fact that you indicated that you thought them to be beautiful, though, interestingly, it is somewhat a contradiction with the fact that assert them to be stale. As you yourself said, you think the engine deserves a different body. If that isn't an indication of an aesthetics- based argument, then I don't know what is.

Your politeness was never in question. Your reasoning, however, was; as was your knowledge of the facts that you used to back up your opinions.

Once again, you seem to miss the fact that you are making a fallacious argument. You suggest that customers are being turned off by the brand by what you perceive to be a lack of technical updates and a stale design language. As I pointed out, the former is incorrect. The latter is also factually incorrect, but I'll still give that a pass based on individual preferences.

Your next bit of fallacious reasoning is that demand is falling due to lack of interest based on what you perceive to be aesthetic and technical staleness. As has already been established, said staleness doesn't actually exist outside of individual perception. Not only that, but there are multiple other reasons for the fall in demand of all super luxury vehicles , including Aston Martins. Reasons like an economic downturn, for instance.

From there, you assert that Aston Martin has posted significant losses in the past two years - and that's absolutely true. What isn't true is that that must necessarily be due to low sales. Low sales are one factor, as I've noted before. There are, however, other factors - like several very large, one-time expenditures in the past two years.

These are the facts. It's really that simple. It may not change your opinion, and it doesn't have to. However, your opinion does not change the facts.

As for potential customers - show me the Bentley or the Ferrari you bought instead. The simple truth is that, on balance of probability, it's highly unlikely anyone commenting here can afford anything with such a stratospheric price tag. As such, this debate is academic in its entirety, unless you care to show me evidence otherwise that you did not buy an Aston Martin because you thought it was too stale.

First you assert that your argument is about aesthetic staleness (which is not the same as saying you don't find them beautiful ). Then you assert that your argument is about technical staleness, which has already been demonstrated to be factually inaccurate. Then you assert that your argument is about end-of-year returns. Interestingly, that's probably the most accurate assertion, if for reasons beyond what you are arguing. But no , then you assert that it's about brand perception based on your own individual perceptions.

Which is it ?

I have read both the article and the comments in full, my posts have addressed each and every tenet. I'm sorry you can't seem to handle a debate on a topic of your choice. There's nothing personal here - you initiated the debate, and I responded.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/07/2014 at 21:58

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Haha well you can always tell them you're a big-time auto journalist and need it for your article.

ssonsk > Steven McCarthy 04/07/2014 at 23:22

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Aston Martin is becoming somewhat of a bastard child car company (i.e. like Maserati and TVR). They are not making things that people want, and they also are not building up the hype. Brands like Porsche, Pagani, Ferrari, Koenigsegg are all moving forward with their brands, and keeping up with the prestigiousness behind their badging. I can see outsourcing their engines as a good move, but hopefully they improve every other aspect of their cars (seeing past just updating looks and horse power). If a company like Toyota bought Aston Martin they would definitely build and sell a better package.

tnxxiw > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/08/2014 at 06:36

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I think a good example of what Aston Martin should be doing is what Maserati is now doing. They are attempting to move closer to a mass market brand. They transformed the QP into a "limo" as they say, which would more closely compete with the S-Class buyer. They introduced the Ghibli, which would compete with the German sedans, and continue to refine and update the GranTurismo . And they also continue to infuse the brand with excitement with things like the Alfieri concept car. There's also rumors of a true sports car in the works that would compete with the Porsche.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 04/08/2014 at 12:03

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Haha! There's nothing big time about me! If only there was! If I ever happen to find myself around somebody from Aston Martin I might ask very politely if they can show me around one, but I'd hate to think I was wasting anybody's time.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > tnxxiw 04/08/2014 at 12:06

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I think you've got a good point there. Maserati have certainly stepped it up in the last couple of years and I think there is generally a very good feeling around the brand. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what they come up with next. I'd like to see a bit of hybrid technology used in that Alfieri though, just to make it even more next-gen, if that makes sense. It would be a signal of intent.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/08/2014 at 13:45

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Just walk into a dealer with some nice clothes on, and bond with a sales guy. I bet they ask you if you want to take a look at something.

Volksandmopar > Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) 04/09/2014 at 02:54

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When I saw the 177 I had some hope that they wre going a different direction, keeping some familiarity but changing things up, but it was just that one car, I used to adore Astons, but they've been boring for a long time. I would like to see them make I car I'm interested in again.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Volksandmopar 04/09/2014 at 07:37

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I don't believe you're alone in thinking that, which is precisely why I wrote this article. It's been interesting to see how many members of the community have come out and said a similar thing to yourself, and how many disagree. I don't think it's as one-sided as I was initially expecting!